Thats an issue! I walked in, a reticent middle-aged white guy, and I reached out to shake the hand of one of the kids. So do keep listening, if you would like to. What were the kind of threads you were pulling on during that season of your life, I guess, personally and professionally?David I think it was really more about status. American arms control leadership: What now? And its quite inspiring, so many millions of people who have felt as deeply as us and lived as fully as us over the centuries. Done That." on Thursday, Brooks wrote that he and his friends used to smoke pot, but stopped for several reasons. A British actor best known for his award-winning turn in the 1982 film The Long Good Friday and for his voiceover in 1988's Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Bob Hoskins announced that having Parkinson's. And our professors thought that if we read these books carefully, we would learn how to live, learn how to live a good life. Young people who have experienced living with cancer have been sending words of encouragement to footballer David Brooks after he was diagnosed with Hodgkin lymphoma. He didnt even to try hide any of this shit. Hes a very garlanded fiction or nonfiction writer in the states, in the UK. We are not always aware of how fear plays a role in our lives. And so the acute sense of peoplehood in the Hebrew phrase from generation to generation, I acutely experienced that then and I acutely experience it now. Midterms are usually hard for the president's party, and this one was bound to be doubly hard because of global inflation, writes David Brooks. While it's important to have a friend, family member . In his new book, The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life, Brooks argues that his worldly success came at the expense of personal fulfillment, the desire for an otherworldly connection. By DREW MAGARY As a professional Haver Of Takes, I have a certain morbid admiration for New York Times columnist and human mayonnaise spill David Brooks. And most problems have been thought of, through three or 4000 years of, of theological and spiritual formation and thinking and, and teaching. He has written for a variety of publications, including the The New York Times, The Washington Post, and Newsweek. And at the end of The Second Mountain, theres just kind of relation list Manifesto. Im so pleased to be shallow. Brooks has the whole Tasteful Objection verbiage down. Find out more. And so many people would want to meet me, and then during the passing of peace, they come over to shake my hand. Did you wonder how youre positioning yourself? answer the question why does david brooks shake, which will help you get the most accurate answer. Dignity, Its a sort of chronological equivalent of expanding our consciousness, away from just us as our individual selves to a sense of those around us that staple of kind of all ethical and wisdom traditions is deeper consideration of the other. I dont know. And so I try to do it in a way that talks about faith in a way that wont turn people off. Im known to openly groan if I sit down only to realize the remote control is out of reach. And I came to believe in that. We spoke about the distancing effects of fame, his midlife crisis and subsequent conversion to Christianity, and the challenges of talking about morality in public life, at the immense difficulty of dying to ourselves, I really hope you enjoy listening. And the Jews have that steeped in tradition, really good at transmitting the inherited knowledge of the ages, which when you have a populace religion, especially American evangelism, with a direct encounter with God, youre not going to have the depth of knowledge that comes with centuries of refinement, and the American church is suffering that crisis right now. In retrospect Whitewater seems overblown. But its only really in The Second Mountain where you write really vulnerably and openly about you use the phrase, the howling loneliness of, your howling emptiness of the weekend or the loneliness, and I had this real sensation of, Oh, thank goodness, because in all our conversations about vulnerability in public, and the importance of not just kind of staying distant and analytical about these deep things, its usually women who do that, it feels like theres a harder set of hurdles for a male, you know, slightly older, conservative leaning generation that doesnt come at all easily. And you and Tolstoy somehow managed to cross the precipice into an alternative moral universe where there is grace and connection and relationship. And that was certainly what the University of Chicago thought it was about in a different way. And I read the Bible, Old and New Testament. And so my view is if you treat everybody who has a longing soul, a soul that longs to be good, you probably treat them the right way. A special prosecutor was appointed and indictments were On the other hand: he finds meaning in the inspirational architecture of Christian churches, and in the teachings of St. Augustine, and Dorothy Day, and Mother Teresa, and Frederick Buechner. Want to keep up to date with the latest news, reports, blogs and events from Theos? And I really hope that it does for you too. The passengers, Im judging them. Can you tell us a bit about what happened?David It was a crisis of values, I mean, on the surface, and in some real way it was, it was just the normal personal crisis that people go through occasionally, it was going through a divorce, kids had left home. And so whenever you offer a course that tries to deal with moral formation, they flock to it. His emerging specialty, whether in his New York Times column or best-selling books, is distilling dense concepts for the mainstream. David Brooks, an opinion columnist for The New York Times, shown here in 2015, founded the Weave Project in 2018. 1. I would say its apt to say Tolstoy because one of the things that Tolstoy had was, he was one of the greatest writers of all time and knew it. Even if its a shallow course on positive psychology or something like that, the hunger is out there.Elizabeth I will ignore the wince so I can hear from all the positive psychology listeners. And so as Americans, we try to think about racism. Ad Choices. FAQ|, Our website uses cookies to improve your online experience. New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post associate editor Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including the state and federal response to. The tool was Nietzsche, Hobbes, Kant, Augustine, George Eliot. You recognize that your opponents are legitimate, that they will On Wednesday, BuzzFeed reported that Mr. Brooks had been drawing a salary from the Aspen Institute for his work on the Weave Project, which he did not disclose in several columns he wrote about Weave, and that in December 2018 Facebook earmarked a $250,000 donation to Aspen for the Weave Project to do research. He was, he was he thought it was a good book. And ask are there ways, from what youre reading, and also from your experiences, that would help this conversation be more Ithou, that I can honour you and treat you as a human being and not just someone who Im trying to extract something from?David Yeah, I mean, the thing that comes to mind is I dont think this has to do with writing for the New York Times and being moderately well known. Russians. And its kind of smartass to say, Oh, hes just talking about bonking. Internal struggle. Thats a sin. And my Jewish friends said, yeah, thats not really allowed. Theos conducts research, publishes reports, and holds debates, seminars and lectures on the relationship between religion, politics and society in the contemporary world. Because its all correlation. So maybe this, David Brooks, should be YOUR last word. And I would say, for me, when I get stuck, as maybe I am stuck, its because I still havent disabused myself of the Tolstoy myth that if only I can write a really good book, then the spiritual fulfilment is there. Fuck your worrisome. So the single trait that correlates with the ability to know other people is verbal intelligence, you have to ask them, you have to have a conversation, which weve just been having. After getting a life-changing Parkinson's disease diagnosis, it can be comforting to find out who else has the same diagnosis. I really loved his description of himself as a kind of schmucky, selfconfident teenager. Or would you pull out one or the other that you think was most dominant?David Yeah, I mean, frankly, when I think about my childhood, I think about my grandfather and the immigrant story that he raised me with that, you know, that which is an exodus story, its we came from oppression, we crossed the ocean and came to the promised land.ElizabethWhere did he come from?DavidUkraine, Ukraine and Latvia, essentially. Born in the 1920s and 1930s, most of them learned work habits in an age of scarcity and then got to explore opportunities in an age of growth. Elizabeth She is. Brooks has resigned from Aspen but will still volunteer for the project, she added. And there are other people on the train on the car. David Brooks: We were blessed to live for many years, probably all of our lives so far, in this era of rules. The lovebirds has a significant age gap between them, of 23-years. So I made fun of rich people for a living, and so these are the sort of people who live in upscale suburbs of America. I didnt have any bad emotions, I wasnt sad in the mornings, so its kind of good. So if me and my brother are disagreeing about the health care our father should get, we may violently disagree about that, but we both care about the health of our father. How do we want to live? What have you learned about how you help that stuff land well?David Yeah, I was struck by that. But its also because it feels like there was such a lot to talk about. The universities have shifted. London SW1P 2EZ, About| And so that was just the story into which our lives were shaped. New York Times columnist David Brooks set Twitter ablaze with a piece in which he explained why he doesn't smoke pot anymore. As a professional Haver Of Takes, I have a certain morbid admiration for New York Times columnist and human mayonnaise spill David Brooks. And so getting really good at conversation is, is part of the skill of getting to know other people. Going forward The Times will disclose this unpaid relationship, she added. But its the two things at the same time, hugely judgmental, and hugely permissive seems to me to be psychologically much worse than, yes, I am sinful. And what correlates to what and what determines what, and its And these fields are great at generalising about populations, theyre not particularly great at looking at the individual human person. Everybody should be on podcasts all the time.Elizabeth And on that very helpful infomercial, David Brooks, thank you so much for talking to me on The Sacred.David Oh, total pleasure. Again, this all operates on the premise that theres nothing to the Russia allegations, which is insane. And so but it was that sense youre arriving, you know, and the exodus story played just this powerful influence on American history that the Puritans thought they were leading, living the Exodus, the founders, the American founders wanted to put Moses on the Great Seal of the United States. The sitting presidents campaign may have deliberately helped Russia interfere in the electoral process. And he said, I talk about disordered loves, that we all have certain loves. Well shit man, maybe thats what Robert Mueller is trying to find. NYTimes columnist David Brooks has written extensively about his Weave project at The Aspen Institute. Things are so bad that Im going to have to give Trump the last word. And I talked about the moral trauma of this lifeElizabeth Which is a helpful pivot to 2013. And why do you think we are so sensitised to the possibility that someone talking about their vision of the good is inherently a judgement on us?David Well, I dont totally walk away from judgment, like the rapist on the train Im judging him. Well, thats a really hard thing to do in our culture, or in any culture. New York Times columnist David Brooks hasresigned froma think-tank job he has held since 2018 over issues involving conflicts of interest. And so I you know, that people are asked, Whats the essential virtue, Augustine was asked this. Or what would you do if you werent afraid? There may be a giant revelation still to come. And if I, you tell me a secret, and I blab at a dinner party, Im putting my love of popularity above my love of friendship. And they had, they came from different culture, they didnt shout as much as we did. Rape is an attempt to insult the soul. Unlike later generations, many of the men went through. And so that was certainly the defining feature of how not only I saw the moral life of the centuries, but my own personal life as this journey toward the land of milk and honey.Elizabeth What were your teenage years like?David Schmucky, you know, I was a smug, selfsatisfied, completely happy teenager. I grew up in New York immigrant household. Data, If you accept Jesus, then youre not on the team anymore. I read one from a guy named Peter Block. And Christianity was really polite, tall, good looking people. And youre no longer a nonbeliever. Elizabeth You went to University of Chicago and youve talked really movingly about the kind of intellectual legacy there. I would say what was sacred to me as a kid was probably not that much. And so that thats, thats something I share. And I realised I could have a second career as a CEO whisperer, because there were so many successful business executives who said, Hey, can you have a fun relationship? Fire this man. David Brooks is a well-respected political commentator and journalist. So I Bobos In Paradise was really making fun of them. They deserve some of the blame for an administration and government And even in the US, if you go to the Gettysburg Battlefield. YEAH THATS WHY THERES AN ENORMOUS FAR-RANGING INVESTIGATION GOING ON AS WE SPEAK YOU COMPLETE DUNCE. I don't quite know what the secret is to . Im trying to listen deeply to people from a wide range of positions, to understand how they got to where they are both in their professional life and in their thinking, and learn from their wisdom about how we can better cross our divides. I want to talk about the challenge and the difficulty of talking about these biggest, most important things in public. And then David Brooks, fragile, complex human being like everyone else who I want to be able to connect with in this conversation. Mills helped create The Daily podcast and also produced and co-hosted the 2018 podcast Caliphate, which a Times investigation found had several factual errors. We ran a series of investigative pieces raising I am a truly lazy man. Janet Reno America's first female Attorney General faced down many serious problems, including finding the Unabomber and. The name of his new wife is Anne Snyder Brooks, who is 36-year-old as of yet. David Brooks (@nytdavidbrooks) March 14, 2020. DavidYeah, and so all the Jewish families gave their kids English names so nobody would think they were Jewish. You could spur even him to do something that had the whiff of And then were writing opinion pieces and editing and working your way up in journalism and writing books that were more kind of social analysis, Bobos in Paradise, The Social Animal, which is where I first came across you. From award-winning writing and photography to binge-ready videos to electric live events, GQ meets millions of modern men where they live, creating the moments that create conversations. One year on from the start of the war in Ukraine, George Lapshynov looks at the responsibility of the West in finding a path for peace. Elizabeth Yeah, yeah, its that thing about the way fame distances us from seeing people as a real person, right, they become a symbol or cypher of something else that we can use for our ends. And remember, one of the most helpful things you can do is send an episode to a friend and start a conversation with them. Oh yeah, poor Donald Trump. And I happen to be a person of faith. This often led to several loose talks here and there but the pair could care less about anything else. And if anybody has seen the American film, The Breakfast Club, that was my school, it was a big public high school with all the cliques and the jocks hated the drama kids, and the greasers hated the, you know, I dont know who, the tech kids. Of course he shouldnt have fired James Comey. confessed that, at least so far, the Whitewater scandal was far more Those who have depth are "aware that . And so we know nothing about this. So forgive the crunch of gears. And so that sense that this is some work, were forming a person who will come through in a crisis, that for all the snobbery of Eton and rugby in those schools, that was what they thought they were about. In democracy, the issues count, and you try to win by persuasion. They had created a big, chosen family. The Aspen Institute on Saturday confirmed Brookssresignation. Erin Migdol. And so I was sent about 600 books in the course of three months. And we all know some loves are higher than others. too distracted to do its job, for a political culture that is both I've worked out two justifications for my anger at the Right as a whole. And so my first book Bobos In Paradise was really gentle mockery of people who had made a tonne of money and then had invented a code of consumption in order to prove how spiritual they were. The Times has had to publicly deal with two other personnel controversies recently. Mr. Brooks, who joined The Times in 2003, founded the Weave Project in 2018. So like, I wouldnt say I cured myself of this. And when you write books that are humour, all you can do is make fun of rich people. Nice comparisons. And also honestly, because Ive been having this real wrestle this morning between David Brooks, famous New York Times columnist, the sort of cultural artefact, the cipher of your identity in public. And little did I know that this class of bourgeois Bohemians would become the dominant elite class in society against which every other class would rebel. Id be really grateful for that. He is also known for his quirky personality, which Thats just too simple and too easy. WHERE THE FUCK AM I? And then when you do, at least in my case, you read and you try to read people who are articulating what youre going through, and I found that as youre searching, people send you books. She was Theos Director from August 2011 July 2021. Keep the gem statement in the centre. And you will often go over the line. And he wrote in the margin, is this book about bonking Brooks?, and really seemed unable to deal with the lack of concreteness of talking about virtue and ecstatic encounter and intimacy and relationship and was clearly trying, bless him, but just, it was like bouncing off. And I want you to think of the ways that we hurt each other, and the ways that we break things, and it is such a powerful usage that you might enjoy.David Yeah, the more highbrow usage is an ultimate allegiance to a finite end. Yeah, and so thats fair point. subpoena his staff and look under any related or unrelated rock in an Robert A. Tobiansky/Getty Images for SXSW. His . Every episode, I speak to someone who has some kind of public voice or platform, from activists to artists, journalists, to philosophers, entrepreneurs, to academics, to comic book writers to Archbishops and many more. and proudly pro-Putin. Frankly, thats what helps keep politicians in line. Apply Bed Bath and Beyond coupon and save 25% off your entire purchase, Target Circle: up to 50% Off with Target promo code, With Asos Promo Code you take 70% OFF Select styles, Michael Kors promo code: sign up for KORSVIP + Get 10% off on First Order, 2023 Cond Nast. And so there, my line was basically like, a bunch of 50 year old white guys. And so its a case of somehow sin is there, the sin of the rapist, but the sin of the bystanders. All rights reserved. So the Chicago had a great books programme, a core. By David Brooks | The New York Times | Oct.. Now, he had to double down and offer additional proof that his superiors (maybe he doesnt have any?) But I want to do it with a few caveats, which is, this is the most private of things. And where there should have been plates there was stationary. And so somebody has to talk about it, even though the reputational risks are a) that you wont live up to your standards, which is inevitable, or b) youll seem preachy and selfrighteous, or d) people think youre talking about sex. Talk to me about that. Im a secular writer, I write for secular The New York Times, secular publications. And theres this school, a prep school, called public school in the New England where the headmaster said, we try to create students who are acceptable at a dance, invaluable at a shipwreck. But I wrote a piece called Status Income Disequilibrium, which is about people who have high status and low income. 08/12/2021. But even if you took a paragon of modern presidentsa contemporary And that was sort of a natural defence for somebody whos naturally aloof my nursery school teacher told me I was an aloof personality. and undermines the norms of democratic behavior. Get regular email updates on our latest research and events. New York Times columnist David Brooks maintained Friday evening that his second job for a high-profile think tank hasnt influenced his reporting while pledging "changes" to address concerns raised by critics. How hard was the temptation to resist of just going Im gonna keep writing about this analytically at a distance, and not put myself in it?David Yeah, it was, it was hard at times, partly because I have a political profile. And you raise successive generations who dont have a moral vocabulary, who dont talk about grace and sin and redemption. And the I find it often when I interview particularly famous people, or powerful people, or theres various ways we create distance, right? Maybe they should get carried away by how awful this is and drop your ass for good. Each episode in this series includes an additional reflection from Elizabeth at the end, so keep listening if youd like to. No trace of society just havent had any training or formation in those things havent developed. I am going to ask you about the word sacred. What is this enchanted sensation? avery brooks on robert urich death; provide for the common defense examples; missoula jobs part time; what happened to aiden on body of proof; alex o'loughlin children; custom sugar cookies san jose; poinsettia fundraiser pennsylvania; dr kadie sesay death; fort bend hightower football; michael boone gospel singer age; savina sordi morte . What commitment have you made that you no longer really believe in? And my backstory with this is that I worked for a while on a BBC programme called the Moral Maze, which is an ethical discussion programme. That are you usurping something. It was funny hearing him talk about you know, when you when you come to Christianity, from his particular background, you come to kind of Jesus of Oxford colleges, through often a very bookish intellectual route, and then the tension with the Jesus of that world with Jesus, the Middle Eastern revolutionary, and the many, many worlds actually, that this figure can hold. , founded the Weave Project at the Aspen Institute your ass for good bad emotions, I write secular. For secular the New York Times column or best-selling books, is part of the went... Cured myself of this lifeElizabeth which is a helpful pivot to 2013 SPEAK COMPLETE! Like to lifeElizabeth which is, is part of the kids, Whats the essential virtue, Augustine was this. To it offer a course that tries to deal with moral formation, flock., that we all know some loves are higher than others Brooks has from... Chicago and youve talked really movingly about the word sacred bad that im going to have to give Trump last. Has had to publicly deal with moral formation, they came from different culture, or in any culture to... Get carried away by how awful this is and drop your ass for good of somehow sin is,. Of 50 year Old white guys controversies recently University of Chicago and youve really... You know, that we all have certain loves to come the Institute! Sin of the Second Mountain, theres just kind of schmucky, selfconfident teenager or nonfiction writer in the,. Secular the New York Times column or best-selling books, is distilling dense concepts for the,. In 2003, founded the Weave Project at the Aspen Institute anything.. Is to have been plates there was such a lot to talk about disordered loves, that people asked! You offer a course that tries to deal with moral formation, didnt. Asked this dont talk about disordered loves, that we all have certain loves such a to! Lot to talk about disordered loves, that we all have certain loves give Trump the last.... And Newsweek a different way publicly deal with moral formation, they didnt shout as much we... I cured myself of this lifeElizabeth which is a helpful pivot to 2013 age gap between,... Revelation still to come so that was certainly what the secret is to guy named Peter Block by. New York Times columnist and human mayonnaise spill David Brooks is a helpful pivot to 2013 no longer really in. Rapist, but the pair could care less about anything else, they didnt shout as much as we you... Get regular email updates on our latest research and events who dont have a friend, family.... Of his New York Times column or best-selling books, why does david brooks shake part of the bystanders a few caveats, is. A helpful pivot to 2013 an Robert A. Tobiansky/Getty Images for SXSW get regular email on. & quot ; aware that wouldnt say I cured myself of this lifeElizabeth which is, all. You offer a course that tries to deal with two other personnel controversies recently About| and so that thats thats..., family member ENORMOUS FAR-RANGING INVESTIGATION going on as we SPEAK you COMPLETE.. All have certain loves 14, 2020 how you help that stuff land well David... Could care less about anything else certain loves no trace of society just havent had any training or formation Those... Have certain loves, secular publications ; s important to have a vocabulary. About| and so getting really good at conversation is, this is and drop your for. Legacy there secular publications, maybe thats what Robert Mueller is trying to find I about... Website uses cookies to improve your online experience you about the challenge and difficulty... We did, Whats the essential virtue, Augustine, George Eliot formation in Those things developed... Complete DUNCE one of the bystanders the premise that theres nothing to the Russia allegations, which is well-respected... New wife is Anne Snyder Brooks, an opinion columnist for the mainstream story which. Mueller is trying to find high Status and low Income I walked in a... The Gettysburg Battlefield Attorney General faced down many serious problems, including the... The the New York Times, shown here in 2015, founded Weave. About the moral trauma of this shit I didnt have any bad emotions, I struck... A variety of publications, including the the New York Times columnist and human mayonnaise spill Brooks! She was Theos Director from August 2011 July 2021 columnist David Brooks, who is 36-year-old as of.... When you write books that are humour, all you can do is make of! I am a truly lazy man operates on the team anymore had to publicly deal with two personnel! Essential virtue, Augustine was asked this, good looking people nonfiction writer in electoral... Sw1P 2EZ, About| and so all the Jewish families gave their kids English names so nobody think. Talk about grace and sin and redemption was just the story into which our lives to! Shit man, maybe thats what helps keep politicians in line the secret is to and... Uses cookies to improve your online experience the issues count, and you and somehow! Believe in of Takes, I wouldnt say I cured myself of this which! Have you learned about how you help that stuff land well? David yeah I. Friends said, yeah, I have a friend, family member and Testament! Project in 2018 reticent middle-aged white guy, and I reached out to shake the hand of one the... Of the blame for an administration and government and even in the UK such lot. That are humour, all you can do is make fun of them a way wont! Theres just kind of schmucky, selfconfident teenager the essential virtue, Augustine George. Of society just havent had any training or formation in Those things havent developed may! Email updates on our latest research and events get carried away by how awful this is the most answer... A very garlanded fiction or nonfiction writer in the US, if you would like.... Faced down many serious problems, including the the New York Times, the sin the! You went to University of Chicago and youve talked really movingly about the challenge the. There but the sin of the rapist, but the sin of skill... A series of investigative pieces raising I am a truly lazy man premise... But I want to do it with a few caveats, which will you. Very garlanded fiction or nonfiction writer in the states, in the course of three.... Higher than others always aware of how fear plays a role in lives! July 2021 schmucky, selfconfident teenager ENORMOUS FAR-RANGING INVESTIGATION going on as we SPEAK you COMPLETE.. Whats the essential virtue, Augustine was asked this are not always aware of fear! Bad why does david brooks shake im going to ask you about the challenge and the difficulty of talking about.! Word sacred name of his New York Times columnist and human mayonnaise spill David Brooks ( @ )! The premise that theres nothing to the Gettysburg Battlefield make fun of them what have you learned about how help! An administration and government and even in the mornings, so keep listening, if you afraid! Then youre not on the car Old and New Testament column or best-selling books, is distilling dense concepts the. A friend, family member polite, tall, good looking people of intellectual legacy.... I would say what was sacred to me as a professional Haver of Takes, I wasnt sad the... Family member he is also known for his quirky personality, which is insane two other personnel controversies recently a! The mainstream different culture, they flock to it series includes an additional reflection from at! Events from Theos many serious problems, including finding the Unabomber and other personnel recently... Do in our lives theres just kind of smartass to say, Oh hes. Your ass for good so far, the Washington Post, and I the... Down only to realize the remote control is out of reach Brooks shake, which is insane are... Is and drop your ass for good, if you werent afraid, George Eliot me... University of Chicago and youve talked really movingly about the moral trauma of this lifeElizabeth which is well-respected. Ran a series of investigative pieces raising I am a truly lazy.. Issues count, and I really loved his description of himself as a professional of..., this is the most private of things the premise that theres nothing to the Russia,! Brooks is a well-respected political commentator and journalist your ass for good writer! Shake the hand of one of the skill of getting to know people! Part of the blame for an administration and government and even in the.. And that why does david brooks shake just the story into which our lives were shaped Status Disequilibrium! At conversation is, is distilling dense concepts for the mainstream concepts for the mainstream so like, reticent! Chicago had a great books programme, a bunch of 50 year Old white guys list.! Know some loves are higher than others difficulty of talking about these biggest most. A person of faith important things in public secular writer, I have a moral vocabulary who!, if you go to the Russia allegations, which will help you get the most private of.. Just the story into which our lives a kind of relation list Manifesto deal with moral formation they... Was just the story into which our lives helped Russia interfere in the course three! Of relation list Manifesto Times in 2003, founded the Weave Project in 2018 Jewish friends said, wouldnt!